(Posted by Kaleb Nation )

Reading Eclipse: Chapter 26 (Ethics)

March 11th, 2009 at 12:05 am by Kaleb Nation

The song for this chapter is Best Of Me by Sum 41 (suggested by Samantha)

Surprise! A week is simply too long to go without blogging, especially when it comes to the ending chapters of Eclipse! Also, I’m in a very celebratory mood. Teachers and biology professors should perhaps look away from this paragraph, as it might cause you to abhor me. But I made a remarkable discovery: and that is my performance on Biology tests is inversely proportionate to how long I study. On the first test, I studied for three weeks, and did horribly. For yesterday’s test, due to all the travel and work, I only had two hours to study all 200 pages of material… and somehow, somehow, every single question on the test was exactly the things I had studied.

Coincidence? Luck? Perhaps. But it left me ready to leap in the air in the middle of the test, as I read down the questions and realized every single one was still fresh (especially the one about the occipital lobe, as anyone who has seen Pink Panther 1 will never forget). Due to this wonderful happening, I’ve read the next chapter of Eclipse as a reward to myself 😀

Everyone in Forks and La Push has had a very long week. Not even counting the townspeople scared out of their minds of wolves and deaths, the werewolves and vampires have just finished up a battle right on their own land. I doubt any of the townspeople will give even one word of thanks for saving all of them from some horrible demise. I guess it’s reward enough for Jacob and Edward that Bella is still safe, as high as the odds were against them in the beginning.

Again, Charlie’s words need some sort of translation. When Charlie is waiting at the door for Bella to return, and says:

“Hey, Bella. How was your shopping trip?”

What he is actually saying is:

Don't ask my why he's talking lolcat...

Don't ask me why he's talking lolcat...

or something to that effect. For some reason, I keep wondering if Charlie really does know what is going on but just isn’t saying anything. I mean, he’s been friends with Billy Black for far longer than Bella’s been friends with Jacob. It seems odd that after all these years, Billy hasn’t spoken a word about the werewolves or the legends to his pal.

Still, poor Charlie: the wool always pulled down so far over his eyes it’s covering the bottom of his nose. So, there just happened to be a wolf howling outside, echoing about the house so loudly you couldn’t talk to Billy; then all of a sudden, the howling stops, and you hear Jacob Black shouting and cursing? The only reasonable explanation is Jacob and the wolf are the same thing while Jacob was riding his motorcycle, he hit a random wolf right in his path, who proceeded to wail and howl, whilst Jacob was sent flying into some rocks, which broke half his bones. Odd, I tell you, very odd…



It’s good for Jacob and Bella to finally talk, without Edward or the others listening in. Now that the battle is over, and things have calmed down, perhaps she can say what needs to be said, instead of letting her fears of losing Jacob get in the way. Because there are many things they need to talk about. She can’t go on forever with Jacob thinking he still has a chance with her: though I doubt her simply telling him will change any of the hope he will retain.

The reference of King Solomon from the Bible is perhaps the best eye-opener for me so far in this book. For those who aren’t familiar, King Solomon was judging over two women who both claimed the same child. After hearing their case, he offered to cut the child in half, and give each woman a piece. While the false mother agreed, the real mother said she would rather give the other woman the child than to have the baby hurt. I understand now just how much Jacob really loves Bella: that he is willing to give her up in order for Bella to remain whole, even if it means that Edward is the one who gets to keep her. It gives so much insight into Jacob’s mind: behind all the manipulation, and the harsh words, and the toying with Bella’s heart, he still loves her enough that he’d be willing to give her up.

As I finish this chapter, I feel as if I’ve just witnessed a very hard breakup between two people who still love each other very much, and could very easily have stayed together forever: but who are not meant for each other in the end, just by some supernatural force which drives them to others. It’s hard enough for Bella, but she has Edward to go to. Jacob has no one now. He is alone.

I’m sure any guy who reads my site can attest to how it feels to be rejected: even more so for Jacob, who knows that Bella loves him, and knows that he has done everything he can to show he loves her as well. But his best is simply not enough to win out over Edward. Why? Because there is something supernatural here, something that spans far beyond anything that Jacob or any other guy can do to win Bella’s heart. It’s something that has gone to her very soul, where not even she can change it. The bond has beaten out every attempt Jacob has made to convince her. Edward had Jacob fighting against an unstoppable force. When something that big is thrown into the ring, how can either of them play fair?

It will be interesting to see what happens in the final chapter, and in the future of Bella and Jacob. My next post will be on the final chapter of Eclipse, and then the Epilogue.

Question for the comments: Jacob brings up an intriguing point of view: what would things have been like, if not for vampires and werewolves thrown into the mix of their relationships? Might Bella have really ended up with Jacob Black instead of Edward, if not for the supernatural forces at work?


– A week or two ago, I redesigned my official website.  I’m still working on some new stuff, but I’d love opinions on the new design if you haven’t seen it already!

– There have been some changes after my trip to my publishers, which will be slowly rolled out in the next few months. First, anyone who wants to friend me on Facebook is far better off adding the official Kaleb Nation fan page instead. This page was created by the same people who run the 2-million member Twilight Facebook page, and since I don’t add anyone on my personal page, that’s the way to go! I check in on things there all the time too.

– I just heard Best Of Me by Sum 41 for the first time today, and it had to be today’s chapter song. Good possible pick for the Song for Eclipse?

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134 Responses

  1. Jacque

    I’m not sure that Jacob and Bella would have ended up together were it not for all those supernatural forces. What Jacob really is to Bella, what really made her love him, was that he became her sun. Without needing a reason to have someone to rely on and someone to fix her, without having a secret like being in love with a vampire that she couldn’t share with anyone except for Jacob, she might not have felt so strongly for him and been so drawn to him. And without seeing Bella so broken and being the one to make her better, Jacob’s crush might have just been a crush and never developed anymore.

    I’m not a big fan of “what if” questions, despite the amount of english essays I’ve had to write on them (perhaps even because of them). Edward was there and Bella did love him first and all those supernatural forces did happen so there’s really no way of ever knowing. What is, just is.

    And now I feel ridiculous because I sound like I’m talking about something that actually happened when it’s really just a book, even if it is a great one.

    ps. Kaleb! I bought two plaid shirts this week and thought of you! With those and my two flannel plaid shirts I’m really starting to wonder if you’ve weaseled your way in to my subconscious and therefore my fashion sense.

  2. AussieT

    Could I be the first the comment? Given its after midnight over there and only 4.30pm here it’s possible. Though no biggie if someone beats me to it while I ramble.

    If there were no vampires and werewolves, Bella would have ended up with Jacob as Edward would have been a really old man or already dead. If we say for arguments sake that Edward was still around, I think she would have ended up with Edward. Jacob matures a bit after the werewolf kicks in, but without a werewolf, he would be a bit too immature me thinks.

    Looking forward to the book review and also the next round of Song picking!

  3. Steph

    Ahaha. That Jake. Running over wolves is a felony.

    ‘But his best is simply not enough to win over Edward.’

    When I read that bit, at first I thought you meant Jake was trying to win over Edward. As in, trying to be friends. I was just like, “What are you reading?” Ahahah.

    I’ve gotta be honest with you. If there were no supernatural forces, Edward would be long dead. So yes, Bella probably would have ended up with Jake. 😀

  4. Charlee

    I agree with steph. Edward would be dead, therefore Bella would be with Jacob.

    Thank God for supernatural forces. :)

    On a completely different note, would you tell me what website host you use? I’m looking into starting a website, and I don’t really know what I’m doing. haha. 😀

  5. Kaleb Nation

    @Steph: ha ha! I fixed it. Now it’s a bit more clear what I was meaning 😀

  6. Lindsay

    Jacob and Bella would not have been together. When you read Breaking Dawn, you’ll find out why they have such a strong connection, and if all of the supernatural stuff wasn’t going on, they wouldn’t have that connection. In fact, I think that if all the supernatural stuff wasn’t going on, they would have been really good friends, maybe even best friends, but she wouldn’t have loved him (in fact, he probably wouldn’t have loved her either, though he probably would have had a puppy crush).

  7. Zari

    I am completely convinced that Bella would have ended up with Jake if the supernatural forces weren’t at work. Most likely, if Edward wasn’t a vampire, he wouldn’t have taken a second glance at her.

    On another note, I know what you mean about the biology thing! As soon as I decreased (or completely terminated) my study time for bio, I started to do a whole lot better on tests. I don’t really think it’s coincidence. . .

  8. becca.

    when i read that if it were for no supernatural forces that they would be together, i have to say i disagree.

    if there was no supernatural, edward would’ve died in 1918, bella never would’ve gone to see jacob to fix the motorcycles, and she probably would’ve either maybe gone out with mike, like edward had suggested in new moon, or just gone back to live with her mom.

    she never would’ve become jacob’s best friend, if not for the supernatural and when she met him that one time at First Beach, they wouldn’t of had that long chat and started as friends there.

  9. Brogan

    I agree with what everyone is saying about Edward being long dead. But I do think that she would have ended up with Jacob. Jacob says that he would have been the natural choice- that he would have been her future if the werewolves and vampires didn’t exist. And they would have been happy. The love Bella feels for Jacob is stronger than any normal attacthment, but not as strong as what she shared with Edward.

    And those who say that she would never have met Jacob- she would have. Eventually, she would have met him through Charlie and Billy’s ‘get togethers.’ And she did meet him at the beach with Mike, and was surprised at how comfortable she felt around him, and how much she immediately liked him.

  10. Jayme

    Lol…just to play devil’s advocate here. Am I the only one who thinks that if there had been no supernatural forces then Bella wouldn’t be with Jacob because she’d be dead? If vampires, and therefore Edward, didn’t exist, then Bella would’ve been crushed by Tyler’s van in ch. 3 of Twilight and she would’ve never gotten to reconnect with Jacob at First Beach in ch. 6.

  11. Jason

    Good question.

    With nothing supernatural at work, Bella would of never met Edward. He would of been dead after all.

    I don’t think she would of gotten with Jacob however. Their relationship really blossomed over the loss of Edward, and without that, I am don’t believe they would of have a chance.

    I think she would of ended up with one of the oh so charming high school boys, or please her father and not date at all 😉

  12. pixie

    I believe they would have ended up together. edward would have died of his sickness back in the early 1900’s and Jacob and Bella’s relationship would probably have progressed naturally.

    There would have been no pressure and they probably would have stayed very good friends for a long time before progressing naturally as they both matured. it was shown in twilight that bella took an instant liking to jacob (in personality and physical looks). something that could only get stronger over time.

    the only thing holding them back would be the age difference.

    i dont think it would even make a difference if he never became a werewolf since bella was drawn to him way before his transformation.

    like the book says, its just circumstances and supernatural forces that got in the way.

  13. hakeberevol

    If Edward wasn’t around Bella would be dead.

  14. Shiloh

    Well, if it were between Jacob and Edward, and there were no supernatural forces that got in the way, I don’t think that bella would have ended up with Jacob.

    For one, if Edward were not a vampire, Bella would have never met him because he would of died in 1918. But Bella probably wouldn’t love Jacob either because she only started hanging out with Jacob after the loss of Edward. That when their relationship started to form.

    Without Edward in existance, she wouldnt have become depressed and gone to Jacob.

  15. Rachel

    Yep I agree with ‘Jayme’ and ‘hakeberevol’.. Bella would be dead.
    What a depressing thought. Thank goodness for Edward and his awesomeness.

  16. Michelle

    First, 13. No, I’m pretty sure that Bella would not be dead if Edward weren’t around. All the overly dangerous things she has done has been for, because of, in response to, ect. Edward. She managed to keep herself out of serious harm for the first 17 years, and I think she’d have done just fine without him.

    Kaleb, I actually don’t agree with you about the whole Charlie situation. I’m sure that he knows Bella isn’t all as innocent as she seems, but I really don’t think he knows a thing about werewolves and vampires. Unlike when Jacob rambled on to Bella at LaPush Beach, Billy has known that these were not just myths and legends. He’s very serious about keeping the heritage hidden, even to the point that when Bella straight out asks him things about werewolves, for a long time he still acted like he had no idea what she was talking about. It’s not until she goes to the bonfire that Billy even seems willing to include her. Even though I do agree that the howling wolf that turned into a cursing Jacob should have been quite obvious, LoL.

    I am glad that Bella and Jacob finally talk as well. I believe that he can stop playing games now, because he’s succeeded in his goal. He simply wanted Bella to admit that she loves him back. If she would never admit to herself that she loves him, then he would never know if he could have won. Now he knows that she does love him, just not enough to overpower her love for Edward. I think it’s important that she sees that now, because Jacob sees that now as well. Perhaps now he can finally move forward.

    When you commented about the King Solomon bit, you said that you understand Jacob more thoroughly now. Realizing that he is willing to let Edward win rather than “tear Bella in half.” I’m surprised that you didn’t see this for what it really is. I think that Jacob is just trying to bow out gracefully now that he knows he stands no chance. Also, it’s a card that Edward played well in advance. Bella has always known that Edward would step aside and let her have happiness with Jacob if that’s what she wanted. It is painful to read, though.

    As I’ve said before, I’m solidly Team Edward as far as who I want to be with Bella, but that doesn’t mean I want Jacob to be unhappy. That said….

    I completely agree with his statement that, without supernatural interference, he and Bella would be together. If Edward had died in 1918, Bella would still have moved to Forks, and she would still have met up with Jacob on that beach. If she hadn’t have been preoccupied with thoughts of Edward at that time, she probably would have seen Jacob more as he is than as an informant. I do think it would have taken a few years, because of his age and that fact that he wouldn’t have had that super huge growth spurt, but I completely believe they would have found their way to each other. Maybe she would have even dated Mike in the meantime.

  17. sam

    I think that if there were no werewolves or vampires in Washington, Bella and Jacob would have wound up together. It was the course nature would’ve taken (I’m pretty sure I got that from one of the books because I don’t think I’m that good to come up with it on my own :)). They would’ve been good together. Then again, that would’ve been a boring book. Just like if Juliet had wound up with Paris in Romeo and Juliet (okay, this I KNOW came from one of the books).

    When i read New Moon and Eclipse for the first time I was so close-minded because all of my friends had read it and were like “Edward is the only one for Bella and we hate Jacob” so all of my ideas of Jacob were already negative before I got to know him. As I read and saw how good he was for Bella, my mind changed (not something my friends really liked). And when I reread Eclipse and got to this part, it actually made me cry. I realized how great Jacob is and that Bella will never wind up with him even though he deserves her. I guess I just felt really bad for him that he was going after someone who could never return how he feels, and he knew it.

    And I just want to say this: I completely 100% agree with what you said about the whole “cutting Bella in half” being a real eye-opener. I felt the same way. I think it’s actually one of my favorite parts of any of the books because it shows just how much Jacob loves her, and if you really love someone you just want them to be happy, even if it means they are happy with someone else. I really liked that part.

  18. Bella

    I agree, if there were no supernatural force, Edward and the Cullens would be dead and she’s end up with Jacob. No offense to TEam Edward but I think thats how its supposed to be. Bella and Jacob, Not Bella and Edward, But it is Bella and EDward so I’ll have to slowely get over it now that I think from Jacob’s side. I am slowely going to Team Jacob and Team Edward. But thats going to take a while. But yes I think it would have been Jacob Bella chose if only now vampires and wolves were involved.

  19. sam

    Oh and I forgot something:
    I don’t think Charlie is as naive as you think. I think he knows Bella is more grown up than he’d like to admit. And it’s easier for him to think she’s still his little girl than to accept the fact that she is, despite what he’d like, growing up. I think most parents feel this way at some point or another.

  20. Mel

    Kaleb! I think the song you chose for this chapter would be a perfect consideration for the Song of Eclipse! Too bad I already sent in my song selections.

    And I don’t think Bella and Jake would have ended up together if there were no supernatural forces. I believe she probably would have finished highschool without dating (as she had never dated before and never seemed to interested in boys until Edward) and went off to college and met someone there.

  21. Sylvie

    Edward would have died in 1918.
    Let´s sayhe didn´t and is 17 when meeting bella.that doesn´t really work either because he is who he is because he was raised in a different time and had a century to develope his personality until he met bella.
    but let´s forget that and say he would still be the same person.then bella would have died. but if she had lived and edward were the same person as he is now(just not as good-looking and strong and fast and…you get the idea;)) and they had a chance to get to know each other I say it would still be edward she´d choose. After all she doesn´t love him for being a vampire but for the person he is. But maybe the decision (edward or jacob) would be a little bit harder for her. That´s a really difficult question, because their relationship would be very different if they were both human…

    I hope that makes any sense;)

  22. Sylvie

    oh and i really don´t think charlie knows anything about the werewolf stuff at this point. Maybe he knows some of the legends but it´s not something anybody would even consider being true. if he would he probably coul find it out. but i think he´d rather don´t(for his own sake)

  23. Shyan

    There is no doubt in my mind that if there was no vampires, werewolves or other supernaturalness going on, that Bella would end up with Jacob. Jacob’s best would be enough to win her over if she hadn’t felt what she does for Edward. And I feel so bad for Jacob because he knows this.

  24. belle

    Hello Kaleb. I liked this chapter as well, but I really loved your intake on it. You really offer a deeper explanation on the Edward – Bella – Jacob triangle. So much so, that I called my sister to read your comments and she finally understood what I had been trying to explain to her. As for your question… I think that Bella and Jacob would have eventually gotten together but not as soon as everyone thinks. They would have been a lot more human about it: him getting over his shyness to ask her out, her getting over her shyness and accepting. But the full forcefulness of the relationship with Edward kind of pushes everything else away from reality. As for Charlie, I think he knows something is going on just not to what extent. He’s a cop remember; his job is sometimes reading in-between the lines.
    Thanks for posting Kaleb. I love coming to your site for your comments!! :)

  25. Danush

    “It seems odd that after all these years, Billy hasn’t spoken a word about the werewolves or the legends to his pal.” He can’t, it’s part of the treaty, Jake says so in the first book: “So my great-grandfather made a truce with them. If they would promise to stay off our lands, we wouldn’t expose them to the pale-faces.” (chapter 6) Jake is breaking the treaty, he shouldn’t tell Bella about the Cullens, but at the moment, he doesn’t believe that the stories are true

    And, I do think Jake and Bella would’ve ended up together, even without Edward leaving, they somehow would have found the way to be with each other. Perhaps, he could be the reason for Bella to decide that Forks is her home…

    God, I hate my English this morning, I hope you’ll excuse the miswriting and grammatical errors…

    Thanks for the post, it made my day!

  26. Nicole Jet

    @Lindsay (comment 6):
    I completely agree with you, and kudos to your choice of words. You made your point well without giving away anything that happens in Breaking Dawn.

  27. Gemma

    We have to remember that Edward played the altruistic role and gave Bella up FIRST in New Moon when he felt like he was a danger to her etc. He also said in Eclipse that if she wanted to be with Jacob he wouldn’t stop her. So it would seem that Edward is a lot more selfless on the surface. Whereas Jacob does hold those same qualities but they are hidden under many many thick layers 😛 I think after Breaking Dawn you’ll also agree that Edward AND Jacob are both applicable to the “real mother” in the King Solomon reference :)

  28. goloptious

    I read Jacob’s offer to give Bella up in a different way. I saw it as a ploy he was using to show her that he was a better man than Edward. Instead of actually being willing to give Bella up, he was playing with her emotions and trying to get her to ditch Edward. I don’t think he was being noble but was being manipulative again.

  29. Heather

    Haha Kaleb, did you just realize if you cram for a test, you do so much better because you remember it all? I do this all the time, the only problem is you forget the information as soon as you walk out of the classroom, which could hinder you if you have a comprehensive final exam.

    Running over wolves? How dare ye, Jacob Black! They are your ancestors, after all. Poor Charlie, I swear he’s not dumb, he just really rather not notice some things.

    The thing with the King Solomon thing, is while we finally learn Jacob has enough maturity to give Bella up, everyone forgets that through this whole book (and even the end of the last one), Edward has said, “I will give you up if it makes you happy.” He’s stressed and stressed this point because, while he would rather kill himself than lose Bella, he wants her to be as happy as she can be, plus he still feels like he should be punished for leaving her. I think he’s been punished enough in this book lol.

    For your question, Jacob and Bella would have definitely ended up together if it wasn’t for vampires and werewolves and such. I think they would’ve waited until Bella graduated or somewhere farther down the line to get together, and their relationship would be entirely normal. Have kids, get the seven year itch, fight all the time (c’mon, it’s Jake and Bella!), etc. It would’ve been just like any average American family who has issues. But where’s the fun in that when you are reading a supernatural fiction book? That’s what makes Bella and Edward’s relationship so magical, because it’s so far beyond normal it’s almost better, despite everything you would have to go through to be together.

    (Btw, sorry for all those huge sentences right in a row. My writer perfectionist self is gasping in horror, but I’m too lazy to edit it at this moment)

  30. Heather

    Oh, I totally agree, goloptious. I forgot to add that in my response.

  31. Natalie

    @Lindsay I completely agree too!!! Jacob and Bella wouldn’t have gotten together. If you think about the events which brought them together logically you can reach this conclusion fairly easily. Bella wouldn’t have needed someone to be like the “sun” for her after Edward left in New Moon because he never would have left in the first place. Jacob and Bella’s strong connection is as a result of Edward so if he never existed that bond would never had been needed and they probably would have been casual friends because of their fathers at best.

  32. Heather

    Ugh, sorry for multiple commenting. To Lindsey and Nicole Jet, while I think that’s true once you get to NM, in Twilight I can see that eventually Jake and Bella might become more. Once Jake had matured enough, he would’ve had all these plans (like he did in NM) to get Bella and she would’ve fallen for one. Who knows, they might’ve gotten a divorce at some point, but I personally believe they would’ve gotten married and just spend all their time fighting. Like normal people. Bella never really had an interest any other boys, but she did notice Jacob on the beach.

  33. Angela

    Yes. I think Bella and Jacob would have been together.

  34. Caya

    Going to “what ifs…” is a waste of time, the point is Stephenie didn’t write the story of Bella’s life without Edward for a reason.

  35. Colleen

    “As I finish this chapter, I feel as if I’ve just witnessed a very hard breakup between two people who still love each other very much, and could very easily have stayed together forever: but who are not meant for each other in the end, just by some supernatural force which drives them to others. It’s hard enough for Bella, but she has Edward to go to. Jacob has no one now. He is alone.”

    This quote TOTALLY reminds me of Sam and Leah’s relationship. They were two people who loved each other very much, but in the end they couldn’t be together because they were destined for other people. (or at least Sam was)

  36. Shakesgirl66

    While I am not the biggest fan of Jacob. I would have to say, I do believe if vampires and werewolfs didn’t exist that Bella would in the end have some kind of relationship.

    I say this because even before she know the truth about Edward, she spent a day with Jacob. I can’t remeber the rights words, but even then on that first day it felt easy and she could she her self being friends with him.

  37. KitKat

    Before a few months ago, I would have said they would have been about the same as Leah and Sam: wonderful together and desperately in love, but susceptible to Jacob possibly imprinting. While this would have been fine for a while, it would not have lasted, I don’t think. Of course, as you said, WITHOUT supernatural intercession (which I’m counting as Edward’s existence) Jacob wouldn’t have become a werewolf in the first place, and I’m sure they would be very happy with eachother.

  38. NuttyNetty

    kaleb, there is a study by psychologists about memory. they find that when a person studies in an extended time span, they don’t retain all the information very well. However, when a person studies material, and are asked about it afterwards, the memory is stronger and more accurate 😛
    just thought i’d throw that in there…

    about Jacob and Bella, yes, i do believe they would have ended up together. even if it wasn’t forever, you can’t deny that there was a sort of attraction between them. Also, Edward wouldn’t be around! haha so there you go, no contest.

  39. Natalie

    I totally agree with Caya. The “what if’s” are useless because Edward is in the story and he won. End of sentence. He won, baby. Allow me a small maniacal cackle of delicious victory. Ha ha ha!!! And a little Walter Houston dance of triumph (see City Slickers II if anyone’s confused). HE HE!! Edward wins, Edward wins!! Mwa ha ha!!!

    Meanwhile, back to sanity, just because Bella and Jacob would have been friends from the beginning doesn’t mean they would have definitely ended up together. Has anyone had a friend of the opposite gender who was very close to you but you could never see yourself…um…shall we say marrying the individual? True, I think MAYBE…PERHAPS…Bella would have ended up with Jacob. But I’m sorry, I have to admit, what a disgraceful consolation prize.
    Oh, the thought of Edward dying in 1918 was heart-breaking. Please, never say that again, I’m begging you.
    Yes, Jacob and Bella would have fought all the time. Unpleasant. And I completely agree, Bella’s love with Edward is too magical and beautiful to put aside. Not tempting enough by any means.
    And I thought the King Solomon reference was a terrible thing for Jacob to say. Bella was very angry. Again, manipulation.
    Edward would sacrifice his own life to save Bella or if he were without Bella. If Bella had died or was close to death, Jacob would have given a small sigh, maybe a tear or two before brushing his hands and say, “Oh, well. Too bad.” He loves her but I think he loves the competition more. He hates to lose.
    And about Charlie, oh, Kaleb, I can’t wait until you read Breaking Dawn hint hint. Hilarious. One of the best scenes of all four with Charlie. Awesome.

  40. Sylvie

    sorry for posting again but i just realized something while reading the other comments:

    edward is very selfless all the time even more than jacob, but he does fight for her.
    well, and the reason he says he would give her up and the reason he leaves in new moon and the reason he tries to stay away from her in twilight is that he thinks he´s not good enough for her. Even more than bella thinks she´s not good enough for him. So he sometimes tries NOT to fight for her. But if all three of them had the same characters that they have know while all oh them being human, edward would fight as much or probably more as jacob does now. So while most seem to think that bella and jacob would be togheter i really think she´d still choose edward. they´re just ment for each other.
    So, I hope that sounds logical^^

  41. Sylvie

    and @ nathalie:
    hilarious writing it really made me laugh
    but i really don´t think jacob is so cold-heartet!

  42. Katie

    hahaha Steph already got my first point edward would be dead if he wasnt a vampire haah.

    but if he was a normal human born in this time no i dont think he’d end up with bella because being a vampire wasnt just a side thing that comes with edward it was who he was being a vampire shaped his personality, gave him that patientce and the ability to care for bella.

    Jacob love Bella even before he KNEW about the wolves….

  43. Katie

    ….actually…if there was no edward then she really wouldnt have leaned on jacob so much.

    so in the end she move back in with her mom haha.

  44. April

    Well Um…
    If There Were No Vampires Then Edward Wouldn’t Still Be “Alive” so Yeah…
    Bella Would Be With Jacob!
    But if We’re Not Thinking About it That Way Then I Think There Still Would’ve Been the Edward/Jacob Rivalry.
    Their Personalities Are Just so Different & I Think They Would Both Still Love Bella so That Conflict Would Still Be There.

  45. Rachel

    i do think bella and jacob would have ended up together if there was no supernatural forces, because bella has said herself that she loves jacob, and if there was no edward, there would only be jacob for her. maybe mike newton.jkjk. p.s. team jacob rejoice— in a normal world jacob would have won.

  46. Amanda

    The way I see it you could think of this as if there were two different dimensions. In the first dimension there are no supernatural forces. In the second vampires and werewolves exist.
    In the first Bella moves to Forks and meets Jacob at the beach and instantly becomes friends with him. That friendship eventually turns to love and the vision that Bella saw when she kisses him in Eclipse becomes the reality.
    In the second she meets Edward first, falls hard for him and is preoccupied with thoughts of him when she meets Jacob. The existence of the supernatural puts a spin on the way things happen here. Edwards existence gets in the way of Bella and Jacobs romance. She is meant to be with Jacob but she is also meant to be with Edward. Her connection with Edward is in a sense a supernatural force like imprinting. In this dimension there are also the werewolves who imprint. The Sam, Emily, and Leah triangle may have never existed in the first dimension. I view the Bella, Edward and Jacob triangle in very much the same way. Edward is to Bella as Emily is to Sam. Jacob and Leah are very much the victims of this supernatural force. So in an attempt to course correct we come to… SPOILER………………. Nessie who would never exist if the supernatural didn’t. She is in effect the replacement for Bella in Jacobs life. It’s a strange way of looking at it but that is the way I see it.
    I don’t believe that Bella would have died in the accident with the van. I’m not sure if that would have ever happened to be honest. If one is to think about this like the theory of parallel dimensions where everything that could ever happen has happened just in another dimension then we can see that she may have died in one dimension but it may have never happened in another. If we really think about it in these terms we could also say that she would have died if Edward had given in that first day and killed her. I’m only interested in the two where she doesn’t die in making my point.

  47. Kristen

    Katie has a good point! hahah but i think should would still end up with Edward (if he acually is alive being 107 years old). Thats because he wouldnt have had to leave her in New Moon and poor Jacob wouldnt have been in the picture at all.

  48. Kristen

    i think she**

  49. Kristen

    ohhh! aand i agree withh goloptious

  50. becky sue

    Hmmm. You know what is a weird thought? What if Edward and Jacob were just normal people. What if they both met her (and Edward somehow was born much later.) Could you imagine this rivalry WITHOUT the whole vamp/wolf aspect? IDK if Edward would have noticed her and fallen in love. The whole thing was she was different; she smelled great and her mind was a mystery……and Jake…. GAH, THIS IS TOO HARD TO RIDDLE OUT THERES TOO MUCH LITTLE DETAILS!

  51. Krista

    Congratulations Kaleb! Good job on the test I mean… :)

    I love your chapter reviews, but it makes ME feel bad to see you doing so much work all the time! Honestly, how many hours have you slept this week?

  52. Mandi

    Hm I think that if the werewolves and vampires didn’t exist then Jacob and Bella would have ended up together. Partly because then Edward wouldn’t exist in her world, he would have died in 1918 like he was supposed to.

    Glad to see how far you are coming in the series. I can’t wait to hear about Breaking Dawn!

  53. Kpucine

    About your question for the coments, I think they would have ended up together. After all, wasn’t Bella about to be with Jacob when Edward left her in New Moon ??
    But, the fact is she found in Edward her soulmate, and that love is stronger than any other feeling. However, Jacob was ready to take her as she was, even if she was broken, like she said in New Moon. It would not have been the same love that with Edward, but it would have been strong too.
    But would have been it fair towards Jake ? Being with him whereas she still loves another one, and obviously, she will never forget him…
    So, Bella would have been with Jacob but only if Edward would have left her (and that’s not sure if we don’t consider the supernatural aspect ^^).

    About Charlie’s mind, that’s really interesting. I’ve never seen it this way; maybe I always considered him as a naive person.
    But from your point of view, I began wondering. Maybe you’re right, maybe he knows. But I don’t think he knows that he knows. Let’s try to be clear here : maybe he noticed all the strange things, coincidences, but he doesn’t want to face it. And these things remain in his subconscious.
    On the other hand, as Bella said in Twilight, even if Jake doen’t believe in the legends, his father, Billy, strongly believes them. And he’s not really allowed to tell them to non Quileutes :)

    P.S : sorry for the mistakes :)

  54. Twilight Teacher (Erin)

    Well, as a teacher, I of course had to read the paragraph you told me to look away from, and I am slightly disappointed in your study skills….just kidding! Hey, whatever works for you! And if the lack of studying means I get to enjoy a mid-week post, all the better:).

  55. response

    hmmm, i think w/o edward bella would be long dead as well (perhaps i’ve read too many dreary books, which makes me think this way). on the positive side, i think she would have still found a good friend in jacob, who could possibly save bella from herself before anything bad happened to her.

  56. Soledad

    i think without the supernatural stuff they would have ended up together

  57. Fangster

    Well, i dont think so because if they were both just human and bella and edward gt together then he wouldntneed to leave her in new moon because jasper wouldnt have snappd at her, therefore. Bella wouldnt feel the need to try anything dangerous which sparked her friendship with Jake so her and Edward would stay together and hav no wolf shaped obstacle in the way :)

  58. Cara

    I really don’t believe that bella would fall for jacob. The first time bella trys to start a conversation with Jacob is when she’s trying to get more information about Edward. I think hat they would have eventually met seeing as how Charlie and billy are so close, but I think it would have stayed in the stage it was in before Edward left with jacob just crushing on bella. I dnt think they wouldn’t have become close becuase he never would have had the growth spurt before his transformation and then would still look 16.

  59. Sarah B

    Thank god, someone else thinks Charlie knows more than he lets on. I think the reason why he and Billy had that argument and subsequent rift between them about the Cullens is that Billy told (or at least hinted to) Charlie what the Culllens really are and he didn’t (or didn’t want to) believe it. I have more reasons but you still haven’t read Breaking Dawn :(

  60. Megan

    Well, if vampires and werewolves didn’t exist, than Edward would have died in 1918. So, in that case, Bella probably would have ended up with Jacob, had she ever thought of him again after the first time they met. But I really can’t see it happening. Bella & Edward are soul mates, one can’t exist without the other, so it’s hard to imagine Bella with anyone else. She might have been happy with Jacob, but never as happy and in love as she is with Edward. But if Edward was still somehow in the picture and this was all human, I still think that Bella and Edward would belong together. I don’t really know how to explain it the right way, but they always belong together. I just can’t imagine Jacob and Bella in a romantic relationship. I’m not against Jacob at all, so don’t be mad at me…I just can’t picture him with Bella. Really, it’s difficult to picture him with anyone. They’d have to be a really amazing person to deserve Jacob :)

  61. Megan

    Oh yeah, and since I think it’s way too weird for Bella to love anyone but Edward, and since Edward lived way long ago, I figured out a way for him to be in the picture!!! He could be reincarnated!!! Haha :) Or, more easily, Bella and Jacob could have been born in 1901 like Edward :) Haha I’m just kidding. I have way too much time on my hands.

  62. altissimus

    If there had been no supernatural forces at work, Bella would have been killed by Tyler’s truck upon her arrival in Forks. So, she wouldn’t have a chance to be with Jacob. However, I think if she were alive she could have been with him. Even if she hadn’t gotten to know him under the same circumstances, she does mention even in Twilight how much she likes Jacob and how comfortable she is around him. I think things would have eventually progressed into a romantic relationship.

    But what if Edward were alive, and human, and her age? I really don’t know who she would have ended up with. Part of Edward’s charm, besides the whole supernatural bit, is his early 20th century gentlemanly manners, and the fact that he’s had about 100 years to mature. If he were just another kid, like Jacob, I honestly think Bella would have ended up with Jacob. Even in Twilight, Bella often finds herself annoyed at Edward, and if he didn’t have the aforementioned advantages, she probably wouldn’t even consider him. Her relationship with Jacob is so natural and based on their personalities. She would probably end up with him.

    The King Solomon story interests me also. Of course, Jacob is trying to tell Bella that he loves her more because he is willing to give her up, but Edward has already told Bella the same thing over the course of the book.

    Now, what I’m wondering is, considering that Jacob knows Bible stories, and considering the Biblical names Jacob, Rachael and Rebecca (and also Seth and Leah,) could some of the Quileutes possibly be Christians, or maybe Mormons (considering Meyer’s own religious tendencies?) It seems strange that the Quileutes would believe all these myths and legends about spirit warriors and werewolves, and yet also know the Bible and name their children after Biblical characters.

  63. Becky

    Well, if vampires didn’t exist Bella would have been hit by Tyler’s van and probably be dead. Or at least in extremely bad condition. So that would sort of throw a wrench in the romantic side of things.
    And if it weren’t for Edward Bella wouldn’t have questioned Jake about the legends, and never would have spent much time with him at all really. So Edward sort of brought them together.

    But, yeah. If Edward didn’t exist than Bella would have probably been with Jake.

  64. tori schmitz

    1. i dont think the king soloman thing/jacob letting bella go was really out of love or more rather another manipulation trying to be more like Edward- selfless, to get her back.
    2. i belive that without the help of supernatural forces Edward and ella would still end up together because it is like soulmates. And whether edward lived a hundred years before bella that in a way he would be re-incarnated until they meet and fall in love. Whos to say its not the supernatural that drew bella to jacob to begin with…

    – always enjoy ur subjects

  65. Lily

    It’s inversely, not reversely. I know math isn’t your strongest subject, but really?! Come on.

    I don’t know who Bella would have ended up with. The problem is that a) without all the Bella/Edward romance there would be no Twilight to read (horror, I know) and b) that if we just assumed that all three of them were human, living in the same time and in the same situation, there wouldn’t be as much drama about them. I think Jake would still be obsessed with Bella, because that’s the way Stephenie wrote him, but Bella would still think of him as a little boy, a guy she could be around easily but nothing more.

    REPLY: Whoops! Sorry about the typo

  66. YetAnotherTwilightFan

    I loved the reference to Pink Panther haha! I also loved this line “while Jacob was riding his motorcycle, he hit a random wolf right in his path, who proceeded to wail and howl, whilst Jacob was sent flying into some rocks, which broke half his bones. Odd, I tell you, very odd…” haha very funny!

    & in regards to the question if there weren’t any supernatural powers at work & assuming that Edward was out of the picture, I am not so sure that Bella would have ended up with Jacob. To me Bella just doesn’t seem like the dating/marrying type! She never really dated before she came to Forks so I don’t think she would have stared unless she found a supernatural type, like Edward. Since we are talking about the absent of supernatural then I say that she would have just ended up friends with Jacob but probably not anything more! Bella said that she liked him but I wonder if she never had the need to know about the legends how much they would have really talked. I don’t know if I am making any sense but that is what I think!

  67. Jacque

    I agree with you #66! I said in my comment wayyyy up there at the top that I don’t think Bella would have ended up with Jacob but I noticed a lot of people posting saying that without the supernatural forces, Edward would be dead. Which would be true but just because Edward isn’t around doesn’t make Jacob the only other option for Bella. What if, without Edward, she’d never had a reason to talk to Jacob or get to know him better? Jacob and Edward aren’t the only two possibilities for Bella in the world. Who knows, without Edward Bella could have given in to Mike’s advances or agreed to go to the dance with Eric or Tyler. There’s tons of boys she could pick. She just happened to find the perfect one right away.

  68. mattie

    i supose it depends. If there were no supernatural forces and Edward had died in 1918 then i think she would have ended up with Jacob, but if edward did exist and was just another guy at her school i think he would have ended up with Bella…its not just his vampireness that is attractive 😛 I think Bella would have been very happy with Jacob in the normal, natural world but i think compared to how she feels with Edward then it just doesn’t compare.

  69. Mary

    Oh my gosh, I always cry at this chapter, and i just cried again reading your post and thinking about it. Thanks for understanding what’s going on between Jacob and Bella, though.

    And yes, Bella would have ended up with Jacob.

  70. Mariana

    I think that if Edward had lived normally, in Bella’s time, she would have ended up with Edward.
    But, without Edward, Bella would be dead. Referring to the people who said that all her near death experiances were due to Edward, her first one was not. The car accident had absolutely nothing to do with Edward, it was just her standing and someone else driving badly. But, if not for Edward’s speed and good reflexes, she would have been crushed by the van. And that would not have been a happy story.

  71. Blair

    Yay! You posted on my birthday! A great birthday present from you is to come home and read your comments about eclipse and get a few laughs! :)

    Anyways to your question I don’t think so because like people have said without Edward she wouldn’t have leaned on Jacob so much. He was her sun in her time of darkness, and thats how she fell for him. Also, she probably would have moved back with her mom when her mom offered it.

  72. Vica

    Hey kaleb,
    i hope you know that whenever soemone says theese thingsi wanna spoil it.
    i like your blogs.
    and i dont want u to get mad at me.
    sos im not gonna tellu…but with out edward bella would be dead.
    so.. u know

  73. Cara

    Nahh, I think she still would have been with Edward. They’re meant to be together, werewolves and vampires or not… Then again, if there weren’t vampires and werewolves, Edward wouldn’t be alive at the same time as Bella…

    I love the song, but I don’t think its the entire song for the book…

  74. tina

    Great take on this chapter, Kaleb. It is a heartbreaking part of the story. Seeing Jake broken is hard, he’s usually sunny and self-assured. :( I really think he believes he is the one who really loves her because he can give her up.

    Sometimes, growing up is painful for all parties involved.

    The part with Charlie is important, you’ll see why in Breaking Dawn!!! I think he has an inkling of what is being said, but he is a logical man and doesn’t give it much credence.

    So, on to your question – Bella would not be with anyone. She would have died in the accident – which was her original fate. Edward bought her time, over and over again. He changed her fate. I guess you could say that their fates were intertwined. Jacob’s fate is also intertwined with theirs….keep reading!!!

    Bella was not doing anything dangerous when Tyler’s van smashed into her truck – she was just looking at the chains on her tires. An average, everyday act. She would have been the victim of a horrible accident if Edward had not been there, with his supernatural speed and strength.

    I’m excited to see what you think of the last chapter!! And the epilogue!!!

    On to Breaking Dawn!!! Yay!

  75. Chloe Cullen

    I don’t think that Bella would have ended up with Jacob, even without all the vampires and werewolves. Assuming that Edward was still 17 during the story, and that Bella didn’t die from Tyler’s car crash, then there wouldn’t have been any need for Edward to leave her like in New Moon, so Bella wouldn’t have needed Jacob to be her “sun”. I still think she would’ve been with Edward 😀

  76. Kristina

    Kaleb, I love you. You’re insight it wonderfully amazing. I especially love the paragraph where you realized the Solomon story and Jacob parallel. I love that analogy!

    Although, when my brother and I read it, he thought of the argument that Edward would do the exact same thing. He’d be totally willing to give her up as well. Which makes her decision that much harder.

    And if there were no supernatural forces at work, no vampires or werewolves, that sad, heartbreaking truth is that Edward wouldn’t exist in the same time period as Bella if he weren’t a vampire. Jacob was always ment to be in the same time period. If there weren’t any supernatural forces, Bella and Jake would most likely end up together happily ever after.

  77. Kristina

    and my “I love you” was NOT ment in a creepy way.

    Just saying.

  78. Yen

    I have put deep thought into that. after re-reading eclipse i realized how hard it really was for bella to let go. I hadnt realized before how much they loved eachother. I mean, Bella even goes on to say that for a second there she could see herself with Jacob and little heads running along. She could actually SEE herself with Jacob in the future. Probably married and with kids!! then when she said that they were soulmates, but they coudnt be together, it pained me so bad. It was sad because they REALLY DO love eachother and they wont be together, because Bells picked Edward.
    After that i felt soo bad for Jacob. To love someone so strongly and be loved in return, yet something (Edward) in the way.
    If none of these supernatural things existed then Jacob and Bella would have ended up together eventually.
    I mean, once you think about it, these forces go waaay back. So everything could have changed. Everything… so im not gunna get into that much more. lol.

    this chapter is mainly why i am Switzerland.

  79. Becka

    they for sureee would have been together. definately definately definately. they’re perfect for eachother… they’re in love.. just not enough to keep her away from edward..
    :( i love jacob.

  80. tw07

    I think that withou all of the supernatural forces, as long as Bella didn’t get killed by her own clumsiness :) , she absolutely would have ended up with Jacob. And she would have been very happy.

  81. Karlee

    I checked my email and started jumping for joy when it told me you had updated! Yay!

    Response to your question:
    I think that she still would have been with Edward. I love Jacob, but Edward and Bella just mix so perfectly. I think Jacob and Bella would have little arguements all the time because she seems to get pissed over little things with him.

  82. Emily

    If not for supernatural forces, I don’t think Bella would be with Edward or Jacob.

    I’m a supporter of the “Edward would be long gone” theory.

    As for Jacob, I think he wouldn’t have matured as quickly as he did, had it not been for the fact that he started to aquire a supernatural aspect to his character. I think the whole wolf thing really made him understand people (the pack) depending on you and just being an adult in general. So if Jacob had never really matured, I think he’d end up being like a younger brother to Bella, rather than a boyfriend.

  83. Lacey

    I didn’t read all the above comments, so I may be repeating someone..but I just want to say—duh. I know that’s lame, but that was just what I thought at that question. If there were no supernatural stuff going on, then Edward would be dead (gasp!). So yes, then I think Bella and Jacob would be together.

    I’m so happy you read and posted again! I was way surprised!

  84. Aria

    When you find your true love/soul mate you quickly realize, you have no choice in the matter. You can’t not end up with the person. Unless you are a true, stubborn jackass determined to make sure you are not happy.

    Jacob is a great match. If Edward had never been introduced, they would have been happy. But Edward and Bella are meant for each other.

  85. devz30

    hmm.. when you put it that way, I guess my answer is a ‘maybe’. But I still think it’s Edward, though. What’s meant to be is meant to be. Being supernatural is out of the question.

  86. devz30

    @Jayme– so right.

    Tyler’s van would’ve crushed Bella and she’d be dead.
    OK, I’m completely forgot that Edward would be dead by then, but if he wasn’t dead, and he wasn’t a vampire either, I still think he and Bella would end up together. Or maybe that’s just wishful thinking.

    No, Edward wouldn’t be the really really really super perfect, but he’d be good looking still. Bella would still be the clumsy one.

    *Spoilers ahead for breaking dawn*

    when Bella urghh– i can’t even bring myself to type a spoiler. but things will be pretty much the same as the near-end of breaking dawn when Bella and Edward were the ..the..here it goesssss – the same.
    Finally typed it.

    So I still think she’d love Edward more. I think she and Jacob would be dating but when she meets Edward, it would probably be something like “It didn’t work out”.

    Well, that’s my opinion.
    If Edward was gone- well, there’s the point about how she only talked to Jacob because of Edward, but then again, she’ll still meet Jacob later on… hough I don’t think they’ll have a …really strong connection. They’ll probably be bestfriends. I mean, Bella didn’t realize she liked Jacob until later on. So it wasn’t obvious, or rather she only realized it when she keeps on hurting whenever she couldn’t be Jacob. And Jacob’s manipulation-and-harsh-words attitude was there because Bella had an Edward and they both loved each other, so he kinda got jealous. But if Edward wasn’t there, then what’d he be jealous about?

    I’m not sure if I’m making much sense right now. I’m already typing too much when I should’ve been doing hw…

  87. Kat

    I so totally agree with Michelle[comment no.16]

    “When you commented about the King Solomon bit, you said that you understand Jacob more thoroughly now. Realizing that he is willing to let Edward win rather than “tear Bella in half.” I’m surprised that you didn’t see this for what it really is. I think that Jacob is just trying to bow out gracefully now that he knows he stands no chance. Also, it’s a card that Edward played well in advance. Bella has always known that Edward would step aside and let her have happiness with Jacob if that’s what she wanted. It is painful to read, though.”

    YUp.!! that’s how it was..jacob finally understood he had no chance of having to be with bella the way he wan’ts..and Edward has made it clear innumerable times that what he wants is bella to be happy the way she wants..she can leave him and go to jacob..he would never stop her..and he is more willing to do soo compared to jake..even though it will hurt edward..a LOT more..!!

    but that is not happening ’cause bella and edward are simply..meant to be..!

  88. Jackie

    You know, it’s so weird. I always have my own opinion when I first read your comment question. But when I start reading other people’s comment. I cant help but agree. Everyone seems to think about it so deeply, when I thought that I did too.
    Originally I was going to say that Jacob and Bella possible could be together. One because Edward wouldnt exist and two because Jacob and Bella really clicked the first time they met.
    But after reading Jacque’s comment. I can see that they might not be together. This whole vampire/werewolf force that’s constantly in their lives seems to have made Jacob and Bella even closer. And without this, I think they would have stayed lose friends but nothing more.
    About the King Solomon thing. It’s nice that you can see Jacob’s side of things. But Edward also said that he would give Bella up and let Bella have the choice. So in saying this, they love her equally.
    This is probably one of my favourite parts with Jacob. It’s shows the side of him that Bella loves which I also found is one of my favourites parts of him too. The softer and real him. The one that listens.

  89. Rian

    I truly believe that Jacob and Bella would have eventually gotten together if the supernatural was just that, not real. For one thing, billy would have never forbidden Jacob from going to see Bella. In the beginning it was sort of an easy friendship, even in Twilight.

    I just think that this is plausible. It might have made them realize there feelings a lot later then in the books, but i think it would have eventually happened, if a true friendship would have blossomed in Twilight and it continued on through New Moon and Eclipse. I have no doubt in my mind that it would have and that they would have been very much in love.

  90. Mylles

    okay for one i think Jacob was being a cow bringing up the king soloman story because in reality if he was like the real motehr he wouldn’t have put bella through an entire books worth of pain first! and i really dont think Bella and Jacob would’ve ended up togethe. someone previous said bella would’ve been hit by a bus, but hey their may have been events that edward effected before bella’s lifetime that ended itn the occurance of her birth! so really their is not point for a what-if question!

  91. Twilight Slovenia » Somračne novice

    […] Twilight Guy je prebral 26. poglavje knjige Eclipse (Ethics). […]

  92. Katey

    Not to be a party pooper, but if they’re were no supernatural aspects to the equation, Edward would be…*shudder*….dead. So yeah, Bella and Jacob would be together. Get on to Breaking Dawn already!8)

    The answers in there. Promise.

  93. Katey

    Ughh…can’t believe I used the wrong spelling of ‘there’. Idiot = myself8(

  94. Kristen

    Wow. I can’t even say how many time I’ve thought about this, even though I don’t really like Jacob. Haha.

    But if you look at it from the point of view that there are NO supernatural things at work in the story, then yes, I do think that Bella and Jacob would have ended up together. Edward would have had been dead for about 100 years already, and he just wouldn’t have been an option for Bella. I don’t think that Jacob and Bella would have become so quick so fast, because that happened because Bella was heartbroken and needed someone to hold her together. Jacob personality however, would not have changed. He would have still been her personal sun, when Bella needed him. I think the picture that is painted in the Eclipse, about what Jacob and Bella could have had is beautiful, but not for Bella.

    She does have Edward, the supernatural element is there, and that’s how THIS story is supposed to be. And I think it’s great this way.

  95. Kristen

    *so close so fast.


  96. Marlien

    I agree with Kristen.
    If all these things like werewolves and vampires (and withches too, for all we know) wouldn’t exist, Edward Masen would have died in Chicago.
    Bella and Jacob would have found each other.
    This chapter is probably my most favourite chapter in the whole twilight saga.
    It’s just so sad, Jacob and Bella are ment to be together but all these unnatural things like immortal potential soulmates from the past ruin all that.
    Don’t get me wrong, without these things, there wouldn’t have been much of a story, but to think about how it could have been… this all really made me feel sorry for Jacob.
    And then breaking dawn ruined all that, but I don’t think I should be spoiling here.

  97. Allison

    What seemed to draw Bella to Jacob was the fact that he was careful not to bring up any topic of the Cullens. He took all her quirks in stride. And his biggest goal seemed to be to make her happy. If not for Edward leaving Bella would most likely not be at La Push every possible day with Jacob. She would probibly hang out with people from her school. She wouldn’t have pretended interest in the beginning (Twilight) because she wouldn’t be asking about the Cullens. So I highly doubt there would have been a romance.

  98. Andrea

    This is completely irrelevant, but I thought you should know: if you go here http://twilightthemovie.com/ you can register for a chance to be in New Moon-but the contest ends soon!

  99. TheThing

    That song strikes me as being slightly Jacob-ish. It sounds like he’s trying to apologize for everything that happened. I don’t know.
    Edward should have died. And I know I’ll get figuratively killed for that.

  100. TheThing

    Comment 100? Hopefully.

  101. TheThing

    Yay. For orange penguins.
    People(Penguins) for the Ethical Treatment of Werewolves.(and Penguins).

  102. hakeberevol

    Really thought. If Edward didn’t exist (or any other vampires for that matter) Bella would be dead.

    Picture this. A nice January day. Bella is stricken by emotion at Charlie’s thoughtfulness in putting snow tires on for her. Tyler hits the ice wrong, Bella looks up. No Edward. SMOOOSH!!!!!!

    Or later on in Port Angeles. Walking in alley. Get’s cornered in. No silver volvo comes around the corner. Guys abuse and murder Bella.

    Sorry for being so emo but she really wouldn’t be alive if Edward didn’t exist.

  103. Kasey

    I have this theory…that I will tell you completely once I read breaking dawn, but since you’ve read Eclipse here’s the part I can tell you.

    Bella and Jacob were meant to be if Edward were not a vampire. Period. Because Bella was always shy, and basically didn’t want any guy, but she was never really shy with Jacob, because she knew him from childhood. Therefore he would be the one guy, not vampiric, who would get under her skin …causing her to love him.

    Mike and Tyler are not that bad looking, yet she doesn’t want to date them at all. Even before she saw Edward in the lunchroom. She just wanted friends…and that’s how she would be acting with other guys. Hell, she didn’t have a boyfriend in Phoenix, and she’s not a bad-looking girl. Soo…that’s part of my theory, the other part will be to come once you read Breaking Dawn, if you wish to know.

  104. Autumn

    If there where no vampires and werewolves, I think Bella would have stayed with Edward. She was with him first and I think she would be happier with him.

  105. Danielle F.

    Oh, Kaleb. You understand Jacob. I’m so happy.

    That long post I made in the comments section of the Fire & Ice chapter in the midst of the Jacob Debate (yes, it gets capitalized)–these were the things about Jacob’s character I was trying to express. Surprise surprise, Stephenie did a better job explaining him in one chapter, without actually “explaining” anything at all.

  106. Anonymous

    I have a friend who read this series recently and completely missed the fact that Bella actually loved Jacob back. My friend didn’t so much as “miss it” as she considered the entire idea complete bologna. And this, from someone who finished the series as a Jacob sympathizer (not being a true Twi-hard, she couldn’t quite grasp the idea of Teams). I only mention it because in the midst of all this talk about the overwhelming evidence of Jacob and Bella’s love, I think of my friends take on things and it makes me laugh. It’s amazing how people can read the same text and come away with completely different meanings.

    But just piggy backing off what has already been stated by some . . . I did not see the King Solomon line as a show of love for Bella. I saw it as Jacob still playing games. Jacob’s “acts” of love did not become real for me until BD.

    As to your question . . . I do think it’s possible that Bella and Jacob could have become a couple if Edward did not exist. But that’s only because I think it’s possible for any one of us to fall in or out of love with any number of potential candidates in our lifetime. The fact is, if Jacob managed to mature in both mind and body without the aid of werewolf hormones, he could have very well had a shot at wooing Bella and succeeding in an Edward-less world.

    I think the real question should be; how epic would THAT love affair have been? Would it have measured up to what she found in an Edward-full supernatural world? Or would B/J have remained an average relationship between two average people? Complete with the real world potential for failure. I don’t know if I have seen enough of Bella and Jacob’s characters (sans Edward) to support anything otherwise. So I guess my answer is yes, I think Bella and Jacob could have been together if Edward did not exist. Yes, they may even have been happy for a time. But do Bella + Jacob in the ‘real’ world equal a definite Happily Ever After? I doubt it.

  107. Ceci

    Hi Kaleb! You make me laugh, you and your comments about the chapters. I found your website by chance and I’ve been reading your post for the last couple of days.
    About your question I think the only way possible that Bella ended up with Jacob is if Edward never showed up because its more than magic it is LOVE… that keeps Bella stuck to Edward, simple as that!
    Keep doing your comments!
    Regards from Argentina!!!

  108. Melissa (melissaturkey)

    wow its been forever since I’ve commented but everything I want to say I think I’ve said before. I’ve always thought that without supernatural forces and Edward dying naturally in 1918 Bella and Jacob would have ended up together eventually.
    Kaleb, I’m glad that when you read the king solomon bit and Jake says he’s willing to give bella up rather than tear her apart you saw how much he truly cares and have a better understanding of him now, thats good…
    Oh and about the Charlie thing. in new moon I think, near the begining charlie says something about billy and the people down at the rez being prejudiced against the cullens, and at somepoint he also says he never bought into all the superstitious nonscense Billy’s talked about, and agian somewhere else (and all these instances are scattered through new moon and eclipse)jake says something about billy once telling charlie about some of the legends and charlie getting mad about it, charlie also says something (and I think this was in the chapter you just read) that even though he doesnt beleive in all the superstisions stuff at la push he was freaked out by all the wolves howling and all that coincidance stuff.
    so I think from that we can concur that charlie has been told by billy the legends but he’s chosen to ignore and forget them because he doesnt believe in them, and that he does know Bella lies to him alot about edward and the cullens and the stuff they do, but he chooses to believe the lie because its easier…I think edward says that in eclipse actually in that torid chapter everyone was waiting for you to get to…the one where edward proposed (or maybe that wasnt the chapter… but I think it was) anyways charlie doesnt know anymore or any less than he puts on…he’s been told but his own disbelief has blinded him and he’d rather believe the tales the cullens tell than look a little closer at his daughters life.
    😀 melissaturkey

  109. Wei-Wei

    wow, you typed a lot. I love the way u write down ur feelings for the chapter you read. You take time && i didnt it was so hard for me to slow down and read slowly b/c the events in the book are so exciting! but u puttin down the details makes me think more about how Jacob is feeling. :) I love the character Jacob i think i might love him more than Edward.

  110. cullen17

    i have a reccomendation for the last chapter of Eclipse “Second Chance” By Shinedown

  111. YetAnotherTwilightFan

    Thank you for agreeing with me Jacque (#67) I agree with you too! I am glad someone understood my comment. I was afraid that it wouldn’t come across the way I wanted it too! I read your other comment (#1) & I agree with that too! hahaha! 😀

  112. YetAnotherTwilightFan

    Chloe Cullen (#75) good point, I agree!:D

  113. YetAnotherTwilightFan

    I noticed that several people think that Bella would have been dead without Edward there to save her from Tyler’s van but how do we know that she would have really died? I mean people have survived worse, right?!
    I just thought I’d throw that out there for consideration!

  114. Laura

    the kaleb’s question is a great hypothesis but i’m more pragmatic and if there were no supernatural forces the book wouldn’t had any sense at all.so no vampire and werewolf stuff…no twilight…new moon…eclipse…breaking dawn…midnight sun…so that’s why i prefer supernatural forces and bella being with edward 😀

  115. Melissa (melissaturkey)

    I have a theory about Bella being clumsy and all her near death experiences and since in the comments there is alot of speculation about whether or not Bella would have survived situations like the van and the port angeles situation without Edward there to save her, I decided now would be a good time to share this theory.

    In the partial draft of midnight sun (not to be spoilery or anything, and yes I’m talking about the one steph released to the public not the one that the released illegally, I waited) Edward muses about Bella being designed by a foolish reckless angel who blindly sent to earth the perfect girl that could catch and hold his attention. breathtaking blood to tempt him, a silent mind to keep his attention and interest…and there was more but I cant remember it all, but my theory is that the near-death experiences and all that could just be another thing to that list only one that justifies him sticking around, at least to protect her, a reason to be selfish in his eyes you see what Im getting at?
    Bella in a way is just perfectly designed for attracting the attentions of someone like Edward dont you think?

    But if there was no Edward and he died when he was supposed too and there was no such thing as the supernatural? Bella would have no reason to be quite so clumsy or accident prone, no reason to get in situations quite so dangerous.

    Even if like Charlie she inherited his non verbose attitude, a little uneasy on the feet and everything else that makes Bella, Bella do you really think there would be a reason fate would throw an average human in an average world into so many dangerous situations it has to be more than cooincidance? I have a friend that is very accident prone but he doesnt get into terrible sitations as nearly as often as Bella does like the fates see her coming.

    I dont think Bella would have nearly as many accidents if something bigger and supernateral wasnt at hand. so in this hypothesis that it is a normal world with a normal amount of coincidences Bella would be fine, before she met Edward her “ticket” wasnt up, she survived being the way she was in Pheonix for 17 yrs, I think life would have continued on just the same for her in a natural world. She would have made it to the point in the road where she was reintroduced to Jacob, whether at the beach or someother time, likewise even with the age difference she would have eventually saw more than his crush that developed so quickly, eventually sometimes through the years before she went off to college or prehaps after when she came home for a break, she would have noticed Jacob, and they could have gotten together with much less drama.

    just my thoughts, I love the cullens and the supernatural and all that that makes this the twilight series, I wouldnt like it nearly as much as if it was a normal human story of Bella coming to notice Jacob, it would have been sweet but not like the wild ride it is in the series. I love Edward and I dont wish for a minute that he didnt exist in the “natural” world for this series, I just think Bella’s life wouldnt be quite so dangerous without him 😀 melissaturkey

  116. Melissa (melissaturkey)

    Oh by the way someone asked me once and I should probably clarify on here too, if when I say in a human world Bella would end up with Jake, I’m saying this from the point of view that Edward is not alive in Bella and Jacobs time period, that he lived and died in the same time and fashion that he would have, if we’re talking about a natural human world where Bella, Edward and Jake all lived in the same time period then it would be more difficult, it would depend on alot of things but I think that she would end up with Edward in that situation.

  117. YetAnotherTwilightFan

    Melissa (melissaturkey) comment #115 is very well put and I agree!!!:)

  118. Feven

    Like everyone said, Edward would be dead & gone; but, even if he were still alive, I think Bella would’ve ended up with Jacob. I know that might be a dissenting opinion, but all of the intrigue and beauty that had initially attracted Bella to Edward would’ve been gone. Instead of being this 108 year old enigma, he’d just be a normal 17 year old guy (hello Mike Newton!) Plus I’d imagine that her and Jacob would’ve been an item before she’d ever meet Edward. Bella & Jake would have just connected so easily, because in that human non-supernatural world, they’d be soulmates.

  119. Maddy

    If Edward didn’t exist, would Bella be with Jacob? Maybe. She could have ended up with ANYBODY, happy but not having the type of love she shared with Edward. But if Bella had met Jacob first, would she have chosen him? No. I strongly believe this is why SM included the Sam-Leah-Emily parallel. Sam met Leah first. and he didn’t mean to break her heart, but he just had to. There was no werewolf magic involved where Bella and Edward were concerned, but it was just as intense and real. It’s kind of ironic that Edward was really the only one who thought he would lose Bella to Jacob– that love triangle was blown wayyy out of proportion and I hate how people seem to use it to define the books when that’s not the case at all. It was also disconcerting, like you pointed out, that Bella had Edward, who had to comfort and see her cry because she couldn’t have her cake and eat it too.

  120. Laura

    I’m just going to say that I love you! Your description of the bond that Bella and Edward have made me sorta get butterflies while I was reading it LOL. Thanks!

  121. Meggy

    and I quote you
    ” mean, he’s been friends with Billy Black for far longer than Bella’s been friends with Jacob. It seems odd that after all these years, Billy hasn’t spoken a word about the werewolves or the legends to his pal.”
    Billy did- remember in Twilight, when Billy and Jacob come visit, Bella asks if Jacob thinks Billy will say anything about her being with Edward. Jacob says he won’t bring it up, because this is a reunion, because Charlie got mad when the kids from La Push wouldn’t go to the hospital Dr. Cullen worked at. Billy and Charlie got in a fight over the Quilute superstitions when Bill told Charlie about it.

  122. Melissa (melissaturkey)

    I commented on this too! yay! finally someone else!
    yeah, Its mentioned more than once that charlie knows about the quileute “superstitions” he just doesnt believe, thats what I was getting at, thanks!
    😀 melissaturkey

  123. Jessica Miller

    I think that they might have ended up dating, but it would have been a completely different relationship between them. She wouldn’t have been desperately in love with Edward and trying to mend herself by using Jacob, so it would have progressed differently. Would she end up with him forever? Who knows.

  124. Albiku

    It’s interesting how a lot of you say that Bella would be dead. If I remember correctly, she was staring at Edward when the van almost hit her. So, if Edward hadn’t been there, she probably would have made it to class safely.

    About your question, Kaleb, I really believe that Bella would have started a relationship with Jacob.

    I have read comments saying that Bella wouldn’t love Jacob because she got to know him when Edward left and he became her sun. I disagree, because I’m sure she would have met him through Billy and Charlie’s friendship. And seriously, guys, the age difference isn’t that big! They would have been together in the end.

    Someone talked about what happens in Breaking Dawn and the reason why Jacob and Bella have such strong conection. Again, I disagree, and Stephenie said it herself in an interview. Jacob and Bella really love each other, and there isn’t anything supernatural in their love. What Jacob meant in Breaking Down when he told Bella what you all know (God, it’s difficult to talk without spoilers…) wasn’t that their love hadn’t been true. He was talking about how they couldn’t stay apart. He meant the unnatural force that kept him there even though he just wanted to leave half the time, not their love.

    And do you guys realise that, if the supernatural didn’t exist in the Twilight universe, what you guys meant about Breaking Down wouldn’t exist either? No vampires, no werewolves, no imprinting, no supernatural relationships, no supernatural pulls.
    Bella would have spent her life with Jacob, because they were meant for each other. But Edward is there, so everything changes. That’s what Jacob meant in Breaking Dawn. That at the end, there was a reason for his pain, for all the suffering he went through. But the feeling was real, and Stephenie herself said so.

    Anyway, Kaleb, there’s something I think you’re not considering here. If you read Jacob’s point of view of Twilight and New Moon in Stephenie’s website, you realise that he didn’t fight just because he loved her, just out of jealousy or whatever. He fought because, from a werewolf point of view, she was going to die. He wanted to save her life, her humanity. That’s why he fought so hard, and so manipulative. Because he was fighting to save her life just as much as he was fighting for her love. Jacob doesn’t understand the Cullens. The wolves don’t see them as people, so he hates the idea of Bella becoming a vampire. That’s why he fought like that. It’s not that Bella is with someone else. It’s that she’s with HIM. In the same point of view, you can see that, in addition to that, he doesn’t hate Edward so much just because he’s a vampire, or because he is with Bella. He hates Edward so much because he left Bella, because he broke her.

    I think there’s much more inside Jacob’s head than everyone here think. There’s a lot of hate here, and it’s sad to know that all the hate comes because Jacob loved Bella and stood between her relationship with Edward. If Jacob had been just the best friend, you guys wouldn’t have hated him. Maybe you would have loved him. He’s the best character in the series, and that is demonstrated in Breaking Dawn.

    Sorry for the long comment and for my mistakes.

    Greetings from Spain,


  125. anti-air

    yo dude this is my new favorite website!!!!
    if yew havent read the rest of the books, then yew should!!! they are so qud!!! im tellinq everyone about this website!!!!! =P (in love all over aqain)

  126. Caroline "Rosalie look-a-like"

    Okay, good question. I am not sure if Bella would end up with Jacob if the supernatural forces were not at work because a “werewolve” (actually a “shape shifter”) is supernatural. Maybe she would have fallen in love with him even if he wasn't a werewolve, but who knows. I think Jacob belongs with Renesmee and Edward belongs with Bella. That is just how it is meant to be. Even though I am Team Jacob, I still believe Edward and Bella are perfect for each other. Plus, I will take Jacob. Haha. (:

  127. neonstar

    she only almost go crushed because she was focusing on watching edward if she hadnt she would have been more aware and jumped outta the way

  128. Sandra

    I still would have a hard time choosing who would of been better for Bella. If none were werewolf or vampire,, i don't think that it would lift a heavy weight and make it easier to choose. I could see why she would of ended up with Jacob because both of their fathers are really good friends so .. they would spend a lot of time seeing each other. If Edward wasnt a vampire.. he wouldn't of ignored Bella the way he did on her first day of school. His beauty would of defenetily attracted Bella to him but i think that the friendliness that Jacob had the easiness to talk to him would of won over Edward and his more serious , mature behavior. Jacob did become Bellas sun.. after Edward broke up with her but she was already attracted to Jacob before she met Edward.

  129. Sandra

    I still would have a hard time choosing who would of been better for Bella. If none were werewolf or vampire,, i don't think that it would lift a heavy weight and make it easier to choose. I could see why she would of ended up with Jacob because both of their fathers are really good friends so .. they would spend a lot of time seeing each other. If Edward wasnt a vampire.. he wouldn't of ignored Bella the way he did on her first day of school. His beauty would of defenetily attracted Bella to him but i think that the friendliness that Jacob had the easiness to talk to him would of won over Edward and his more serious , mature behavior. Jacob did become Bellas sun.. after Edward broke up with her but she was already attracted to Jacob before she met Edward.

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